For International Women's Day, Conversations with Some Remarkable Women

In honor of International Women’s Day, our hosts John Rieger and Tracie Yang celebrate some of the remarkable women we’ve met in the past year on the InAsia podcast.

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Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (00:03):

It's such a wonderful feeling that people believe in you and they feel that you have a leader in you. It's a big feat for a lady lawyer like myself.

Tracie Yang (00:14):

For International Women's Day, some of the remarkable women we've met this year on InAsia from the Asia Foundation, I'm Tracie Yang.

John Rieger (00:22):

And I'm John Rieger. The lady lawyer is an old friend who's part of the new face of long-troubled Mindanao in the Southern Philippines.

Tracie Yang (00:29):

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba was a young lawyer in New York when she felt called to return to her homeland to work for peace. There, she helped draft the landmark law that created the Bangsamoro Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao.

John Rieger (00:42):

We got to know her in 2015 when she spent a year as an Asia Foundation development fellow. But since 2019, she's had a new job.

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (00:50):

The attorney general of the Bangsamoro Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao in Southern Philippines.

Tracie Yang (00:55):

So Elijah, what was it like for you growing up amid the conflict in Mindanao?

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (01:00):

Growing up in Mindanao in a conflict zone, I remember spending most of my time at home. Because first, going out was not safe. At the time, kidnapping for ransom was a big scare in the city. Second, obviously, for lack of peace and order, there was also under development. There was really nowhere to go. No mall, no parks. So we had to be creative with how we spend our free time. I remember my video submission when I applied to the Asia Foundation Development Fellows program for 2015. I mentioned there that I've had the good fortune of being born to a family that values education. But that really meant pursuing education for a purpose. And it came like an epiphany that I was called to assist in the peace process upon going back to my roots in the Bangsamoro.

Tracie Yang (01:50):

What's it like to be a woman attorney general in a conservative Muslim society?

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (01:55):

I would say it's something new, but I've always been there. I was appointed in 2019, but before that, was already immersed in the peace process. So for the longest time, people have been seeing me giving talks and orientation about the law. So I think the familiarity also helped.

John Rieger (02:17):

So it sounds like you were a young firebrand.

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (02:22):

Well, maybe yes. Sorry, that's my son. I was going to bring him to the dentist today but...

Tracie Yang (02:34):

So Elijah, do you think women have a special role to play in the peace process?

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (02:40):

Yes. I think women humanizes the process and I can not just overemphasize the power of a woman's patience. With women around, there seems to be a looming obligation to get things done. In recognition of the multiple roles that women fulfill, even outside of the peace tables. Women's participation in formal processes ensures a balanced, more acceptable, credible and long lasting peace.

Tracie Yang (03:08):

Bangsamoro Attorney General Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba, thank you so much for joining us today.

Sha Elijah Dumama-Alba (03:14):

Thank you so much. It's my first time to be talking in a podcast, so I hope I did not disappoint, guys.

John Rieger (03:25):

First tell us very quickly. Saranzaya, where are you?

Saranzaya Gerelt-Od (03:28):

I'm in here, Ulaanbaatar City, at my office.

John Rieger (03:31):

And what about you, Soomin? Where has the coronavirus stranded you?

Soomin Jun (03:35):

Well, I'm right now in Korea and not knowing when I ever go back.

John Rieger (03:41):

Mongolia was an early Covid success story. Sandwiched between China and Russia, the country acted quickly to hold travel, close schools and ban social gatherings.

Tracie Yang (03:51):

Containing the virus has exacted a continuing cost, particularly for women. Last July, we spoke with Saranzaya Gerelt-Od and Soomin Jun of the Asia Foundation's Women's Business Center in Ulaanbaatar about the situation facing Mongolian women and particularly, small business women. Saranzaya, Mongolia has been under strict containment since late January. What's it been like and how has it affected life there?

Saranzaya Gerelt-Od (04:18):

Yes. Mongolia is one of the first countries that have strict COVID-19 containment measures. All air and land ports were closed. Schools and kindergarten were closed. The internal ban on gatherings caused sharp decline in economic activities, especially for small businesses. People cannot go outside. Kids are locked at home. So it's especially hard for the woman and female entrepreneurs in Mongolia.

John Rieger (04:46):

You both work with women entrepreneurs in Mongolia, and you've just done a short survey on the effects of the lockdown. How has the economic downturn effected the women you work with?

Saranzaya Gerelt-Od (04:55):

They have been struggling to run a business while taking care of the children. And their businesses completely failed due to COVID-19. So according to our survey, many clients mentioned that they are mentally exhausted to just keeping their businesses while taking care of their children. We also recognize that there is a sharp increase in domestic violence. So we have closely cooperated with the [inaudible 00:05:28]. We're providing the domestic violence booklet and cooperating with the police department in Ulaanbaatar City.

Tracie Yang (05:35):

In an essay for the InAsia blog, the two of you have written about a woman named Chuluuntsetseg, an entrepreneur you've supported through the Women's Business Center. Tell us her story.

Soomin Jun (05:48):

Chuluuntsetseg is one of our business incubator graduates. But when the border with China closed, she lost her source of raw materials. And then next one, the government shut down any public gatherings and also called on a ban on the February celebration of the Mongolian Lunar New Year holiday. People usually take out a loan to stock up their businesses to sell during this New Year holiday. And it left many businesses, including Chuluuntsetseg's business, overstocked and in debt.

Tracie Yang (06:20):

So businesses went into debt to stock up for the holidays and then the economy shut down. That's pretty much a perfect storm. How has the Women's Business Center been able to help small business women like Chuluuntsetseg?

Soomin Jun (06:32):

The Women's Business Center was able to provide her an emergency grant. And through the fund, she was able to identify new local suppliers for her raw materials. And she was matched with a mentor to go through her difficult situation with her business. She is now also producing cotton masks and gloves instead of her previous products, which were bed sheets and blankets. And through the Lotus circles Rapid Response Fund, we were able to set up a hotline for anyone who is experiencing mental difficulties to just call and we'll provide a one-on-one followup treatment afterwards, if needed.

John Rieger (07:15):

That's a great story. But it seems like a pretty small drop in an ocean of troubles. Are you hoping to expand your efforts?

Soomin Jun (07:23):

Yes, definitely. This support is a very small support since our Women's Business Center has now more than 6,000 registered clients, which all have been affected by the pandemic.

Saranzaya Gerelt-Od (07:36):

COVID-19 shows the many shortcomings in our current systems that is not inclusive for everyone, especially women and children. We are not sure when Government of Mongolia open the borders, but we hope that we will adapt this new normal idea as smoothly as possible.

Tracie Yang (07:56):

Saranzaya Gerelt-Od and Soomin Jun, thank you for joining us.

Saranzaya Gerelt-Od (08:00):

Thank you for having us.

Soomin Jun (08:02):

Thank you.

John Rieger (08:04):

I'm surprised that they grow avocados in Thailand. It's a new world fruit, isn't it? How to sell an avocado on Facebook?

Tracie Yang (08:14):

This is a story about Go Digital ASEAN, which is the Asia Foundation's project to bring online business skills to small businesses in Southeast Asia. In Thailand, where most businesses are very small, Director Arpaporn Winijkulchai traveled to Chiang Mai to try out a new set of online training videos with her old friend Lakela, who's a small farmer way out in the country. Arpaporn, tell us a little bit about your visit.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (08:41):

So I've known Lakela for more than 10 years. Well certainly, I learned that she has become a full-time farmer in her home village. This location is far from the city of Chiang Mai, about two hours and a half by car. This is the place that she grow her avocados and other fruits. She raises pigs as well.

John Rieger (09:04):

You've included some pictures of the pigs in your blog post this week and they're lovely black pigs.

Tracie Yang (09:09):

Ah, yes.

John Rieger (09:09):

They look like very nice pigs.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (09:11):

Yeah.

Tracie Yang (09:13):

Very cute.

John Rieger (09:14):

This is a very rural area.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (09:16):

Yes.

John Rieger (09:16):

And yet it does have internet connectivity, at least via cell phone.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (09:19):

Oh yes, she does Facebook page every day. And I encouraged her to promote her avocado on her Facebook page. I talked to her and I showed her the video of the project and she loved it. Especially the episode about guiding her to take a good photo of a product.

John Rieger (09:37):

I certainly sympathize with Lakela not knowing quite how to take a picture of an avocado, but I gathered that some of your training is basics of marketing.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (09:49):

Yes.

John Rieger (09:49):

You actually spoke to Lakela and you made a recording of your conversation. I have it here. And I wonder if you can explain the conversation to us.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (09:59):

The course in the video explained about how to promote a product. And in the video, she said something about a volcano durian in Sisaket province.

John Rieger (10:09):

The durian is that very spiky fruit with the really unique aroma, right?

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (10:15):

Oh yes.

Tracie Yang (10:16):

Is there a difference between a volcano durian and ordinary durian?

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (10:20):

In Sisaket province, they have volcano where nowhere in Thailand has. So they use volcano with the durian to make it volcano durian.

John Rieger (10:33):

As a marketing concept.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (10:35):

Yes, yes. Yeah. So I asked Lakela and her friend, "You sell avocado. How would you promote your avocado?" And then she came up with the Ping river.

John Rieger (10:48):

The Ping river?

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (10:49):

Yes. Her land is located nearby the beginning of the Ping river. So she used that with her avocados.

John Rieger (11:01):

It sounds like a pretty fun workshop.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (11:03):

Yeah, actually.

John Rieger (11:06):

Okay. So here you are with Lakela and her friend talking about another video from the project.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (11:11):

So in that video, we have how to promote your product. What you have, but other, they don't have. Only you have it. And then using that information, she tell to make a good storytelling.

John Rieger (11:26):

Storytelling.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (11:27):

Yes. Storytelling is an important part of marketing. Most Thai entrepreneurs, they don't explain. They don't give their story about the product, how they grow this thing, how they produce handicraft. This is something that entrepreneur could put in the story of their product.

John Rieger (11:49):

Then so this brings us to the avocados of the Ping river, grown at the source where it emerges from the ground.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (11:58):

Yes. Yeah.

John Rieger (11:59):

It just makes them sound delicious. Arpaporn Winijkulchai, thank you so much for joining us today.

Arpaporn Winijkulchai (12:05):

You're welcome. Thank you.

John Rieger (12:07):

And I'm really looking forward to someday having one of those Ping river avocados.

Tracie Yang (12:12):

Yes, please. And volcano durian. That sounds very interesting.

John Rieger (12:16):

And that's our show for International Women's Day. Some remarkable women working to make the world a better place.

Tracie Yang (12:22):

You can hear more stories like these from the world of international development, all of them fascinating, by visiting us at InAsia. That's all one word. And subscribing to the InAsia podcast. Until next time, I'm Tracie Yang.

John Rieger (12:35):

And I'm John Rieger.

Tracie Yang (12:36):

Thanks for listening.