The Pursuit of Democratic Resilience

With the spread of illiberalism and identity politics, it’s been a rocky decade for democracy in much of the world. A project in Indonesia is working on a playbook to stem the antidemocratic tide.  Read the full article on our InAsia blog. 

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Ade Siti (00:03):

With common people, they don't want to hate each other. They love each other a lot. But they can read the head stories in newspapers, in social media. So we trying to remind them that this is not right.

John Rieger (00:17):

Stemming the tide of illiberalism. Is there a playbook? Today on, In Asia, from The Asia Foundation. I'm John Rieger

Tracie Yang (00:24):

And I'm Tracie Yang.

Tracie Yang (00:26):

With political turmoil at home and democracy ebbing in many parts of the world. President Joe Biden has promised a global democracy summit before the end of his first year in office. But if he holds it in Southeast Asia, he'll find a political environment that looks a lot less democratic than it did just a decade ago.

John Rieger (00:44):

Joining us now to discuss democracy and its discontents in Southeast Asia, are the Asia Foundation's associate director of governance, Peter Yates and program officer Ade Siti, from our pilot program in Indonesia, Reclaiming Civic Space to Promote Democratic Resilience, or as we call it RCS. Ade and Peter, welcome to In Asia.

Peter Yates (01:04):

Hi John. Hi Tracy. Really nice to join you.

Ade Siti (01:06):

Thank You, John. Thank you Tracy. For having us.

John Rieger (01:09):

Before we start, tell me where you both are.

Ade Siti (01:11):

I'm here in Jakarta. We stuck at home because we are now in lockdown situation. Usually, Saturday morning here, I'm gardening, planting some vegetables. Now, I'm very happy that I'm talk with you.

John Rieger (01:25):

And Peter, what about you?

Peter Yates (01:26):

I'm in Australia. I'm currently at home hosting my 10 year old son's birthday sleepover party. So apologies if we have some special guests throughout our chat.

John Rieger (01:35):

Well, it's wonderful to have you both here.

Tracie Yang (01:37):

So Peter, these are painful times for friends of democracy in many parts of the world, Southeast Asia included. But a democracy summit certainly argues for hope, however slim of reversing the tide. We'll talk about that in a minute, but first, what is the state of democracy in Southeast Asia today?

Peter Yates (01:57):

Well, Tracie, I think the first thing to recognize when we're talking about democracy in Southeast Asia, is that it's always been contested, right? And it's never been the status quo across the region. Democracy as a form of government has always been under pressure to demonstrate it can perform as an effective form of government when compared to more illiberal forms that you might find across the region. But when we look at the current state of democracy and more recent trends, I guess there's not a lot of good news. Democratic institutions are under significant strain in many countries in the region. Whether that be because of questionable electoral systems or executive governments moving to squash independence of judiciaries, or the media. Or generally just making it harder for civil society to thrive, and play in it, that important accountability role that they should. I think governments generally are feeling more comfortable to attack democratic institutions, to consolidate their own power.

John Rieger (02:52):

What does public opinion tell us about the state of democracy in Southeast Asia?

Peter Yates (02:57):

Well, a recent study in six countries in Southeast Asia found an overwhelming support for democracy, right? But also there's significant anxiety about the integrity of key institutions. That message comes through in almost all surveys that you conduct in Southeast Asia. That democracy is a form of government that the people and citizens want, but obviously often institutional government have different opinions about that.

John Rieger (03:23):

Well, so this brings us to the $64,000 question for all of us who are wringing our hands about the state of democracy in the world. How can the retreat of democracy in Asia and elsewhere be reversed? Ade Siti, you are part of an experiment to do just that. The foundation's Reclaiming Civic Space to Promote Democratic Resilience program or RCS. How does RCS work?

Ade Siti (03:48):

Yes, the goal of the program is to strengthen democratic institutions and to improve the quality of democratic processes in Indonesia. We tried to provide alternative narrative to identity politics. So we provide capacity building on democratic failures. We promote citizen journalism, including how we use media wisely to promote a healthy democracy. We also facilitate various forums, woman forum, youth forum, people with disabilities forum. And then the creation of coalitions to identify their shared agendas and push local politicians to take into account development issues rather than be see responding to identity politics contestation in the region.

Tracie Yang (04:37):

Okay. Replacing the discourse of division with constructive conversations and coalitions. So what does success look like for this pilot program?

Peter Yates (04:46):

I think for RCS and more generally the concept of democratic resilience, it's about bolstering and strengthening the existing democratic institutions that are already existence in any one place. So democratic resilience, really refers to the political system's ability to cope, survive and recover from the 21st century governance challenges that we see across the world and specifically here in Southeast Asia.

Peter Yates (05:12):

So for this project, identifying the importance of local narratives and how they inform people's perceptions of the importance of democracy. If we're able to see those narratives change, to be focused on constructive conversations about governance, local level issues. And if you can see conversations happening between citizens and their political representatives who hold political power and decision-making capabilities. That's where we think success lies and what we'll be looking to achieve.

John Rieger (05:44):

The forces that democracy has been contending with, have an uncanny power to set people against one another. They're divisive, they're sectarian. These tools are wielded by people who seem to have an instinct for finding social groups and stigmatizing them and, angering the mob. Does this program have the tools to deal with that super power?

Ade Siti (06:12):

Well yes, that that happened in Indonesia. They use religion, ethnicity to fight each other. And the social media is one of the tool that they use freely. For my opinion, civic space is a key. Therefore, we try to get the civic space back. We try to provide capacity to our partners to at least say no against the sectarian narrative that they face daily, in their daily life.

John Rieger (06:42):

I understand that some of your approach to building democratic resilience was inspired by successes in the field of countering violent extremism. Is that correct? And what did you learn? What have we learned from countering violent extremism that can be applied to bolster democratic resilience?

Peter Yates (07:02):

Much like violent extremism narratives, antidemocratic narratives, don't come out of nowhere. They start at the grassroots level. And so this programming is an attempt to recognize that, and to address the problem at the root cause, at the local level where there's an opportunity for people to decide how they talk about and discuss these issues. Whether they're talking about their local problems in terms of, how they can be fixed, a problem solving approach that is about participatory discussion. Or whether they are framed by illiberal thought, framed by discourses that are about separating and causing division within local communities. And so that's what we're trying to address here at the local level, at the root cause.

Tracie Yang (07:49):

So how do you reclaim this space and keep divisive politics from taking over?

Peter Yates (07:56):

I think RCS is an example of the importance of offering an alternative. Offering a constructive alternative to these anti-liberal narratives, by supporting civic space and civic actors. To be able to encourage those narratives, to create spaces where they can be promoted and discussed is a really important characteristic of a program and something that we are looking to achieve.

Ade Siti (08:19):

We work with common people. They don't want to hate each other. They love each other a lot. But they can read the head stories in newspapers, in social media. So we trying to remind them that this is not right. And then we have to be a champion to stand again this one.

Tracie Yang (08:39):

You're really emphasizing local context, local narratives and how important that is, and that's a lot of work. And I think that's the most daunting.

Peter Yates (08:50):

We know that rhetoric's not enough, right? We know that claims of democratic practice by presidents who often have illiberal tendencies isn't enough. And so this is really recognizing that the local level is where it begins and where much more powerful trends and movements start from. And so we do want to deal with the nitty gritty at the micro level of these challenges. About what the conversation is at the local level and what's communities, and people, and local groups, by talking about what matters to them and how we can ensure it's those issues that are informing democratic practice and how decisions are being made in a more participatory way.

John Rieger (09:35):

The Asia Foundation's, Peter Yates, and Ade Siti. Thank you both for joining us today.

Peter Yates (09:41):

Thanks John. Thanks Tracy.

Ade Siti (09:42):

Thank you. It is so lovely to talk with you.

John Rieger (09:44):

And that's our show for this week. Ade and Peter have written at greater length about democratic resilience in Southeast Asia in this week's blog, please take a few minutes and check it out. And while you're there, subscribe to the In Asia podcast. I know I do.

Tracie Yang (09:57):

We're taking some time off in August.

John Rieger (09:59):

Cancun again?

Tracie Yang (10:00):

I never went to Cancun. But we'll be back on September 1st. We hope you'll join us. Until then, I'm Tracie Yang.

John Rieger (10:07):

And I'm John Rieger.

Tracie Yang (10:08):

Thanks for listening.